The Other Point of View – A Designers Opinion on Sponsored Themes

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no bull shitI took the backseat for much of this debate that has been raging for a few weeks now, but it’s time for my response. At Headsetoptions, we are two designers with over 70 themes to our humble credit, some original, some modified and most ported from free CSS templates designed by our friends, and most of our themes created with the aid of sponsors. Why am I saying this, and why now? Well, today, there was a huge cry about “Sponsored Themes” on a popular download site and hoards of users and designers decided to jump on the “kill the designers” bandwagon to vent their frustration, all in response to a mostly one-sided story. As if it is not enough that we make free themes, some users demand, “that we do it without even a single penny coming our way for the many hours we spend creating.”

So here’s my rebut-

  1. To the users who find sponsor links offensive: I would like to see y’all work for free. No matter what jobs you hold, just work for free, and deliver what ever you do at par with the industry standard, provide support if there is an issue, spend time answering users questions and get paid nothing, all for free, everyday, for the rest of your life. If you are able to do it, so will I. If not, make your own WordPress themes, with your own time and money and stop whining.
  2. To the designers who are all “holier than thou”: Some of the designers I noticed that complain are the very people responsible for the Theme Viewer to pull the rating system out for good, these designers abused the system to their advantage by creating aliases and rating their work 5 stars with great comments, while rating everyone else (including ours) 1 or 2 stars and of course, with bad comments. If that was not enough, they have misrepresented themselves numerous times in shady activities warranting the system to be revisited and changed. So what credibility do such designers have to criticize others? So why are they all up in arms? Simple, they do not have sponsors courting them, they claim they do, but…
  3. To the Theme distribution sites: As they pointed out themselves, Sponsored Themes are here to stay, if all the new themes have sponsor links, will people stop using them? Also, by sidelining designs with such attribution, what will you have to offer to the users? Also, pointing out to users that links to other sites cause Page Rank to drop is outrageous, we are not talking about hundreds of unrelated outgoing links, we are talking about links to the authors and couple sponsors at most, which is quite common, so relax.

Here are a few questions we want the readers of this article to answer; this might help clear the myth surrounding sponsored links.

  1. How can one have the theme author(s) links in their footer if all unrelated links are bad? Not all sites using a theme will engage in anything remotely close to what the theme designer does, hence the author link almost always is unrelated to any site, although the site was designed by the author. Does that make sense?
  2. Are link for authors site different from say a web-hosting company that sponsors the theme? If not, does that mean authors should not include any links at all in the themes they create? Including their own?
  3. Is Google Adsense bad then? It has a lot of links to unrelated sites in my opinion. Is advertising of any type bad for Page Rank?

Let’s stop kidding ourselves, it’s blatant BS packaged to create paranoia, people must be running out of gossips to write about.

Here’s an alternative solution for those who want the themes with no links, dole out $10 a pop/theme and have the links removed, this might compensate for the author’s efforts. Why isn’t anyone talking about that? I see no users volunteering to such a simple idea.

We all know what Open Source is and what the various licenses are, if one needs to learn, they can go to Wikipedia. In short, we don’t need a bunch of angry folks trying to sell their own interpretation of it to us. Our users are educated and most bloggers can and do have both writing and reading skills, let’s not underestimate our users, they are not merely cyber-simpletons who will keep a sponsored link on their sites if a theme has it. Anyone who writes a blog knows where the delete button is.

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  1. 1. this horse is glue « wordpress™ wank | April 10, 2007 #

    [...] some designers appear touchingly ignorant of the WP ethos that you MUST work for free or be labelled moneygrabbing scum [...]

  1. 2. WP Diva | April 10, 2007 #

    Thank you for the additional perspective. Frankly, I believe some designers who are cramming an unnecessary number of links in the footer should get their acts together, I also believe that users should really stand back and consider the efforts put into the designs of these themes.

    It’s really sad to see people flocking to both ends of the spectrum and so few looking at it objectively.

    1. The designer puts a lot of effort into the theme and deserves some sort of compensation. But, the designer also has a responsibility not to abuse the situation.

    2. If the user doesn’t like the link, offer to compensate the designer or not use the theme. No need to lambaste a designer or cry foul.

    It really is that simple.

    Diva

  1. 3. hso | April 10, 2007 #

    @ Diva

    I appreciate the concern and I understand how this story can be ’spun’ to make sponsors look like spammers!

  1. 4. Nikhil | April 10, 2007 #

    It’s a shame on Mark Ghosh to write a one-sided abusive post on designers, pathetic. How much were you paid to write that post, Mr.Ghosh?

    Desis remain desis, no matter what. You can call yourself Mark, Alex, Matt, whatever…Mr.Ghosh, you still remain and act like a desi, no sense of responsibility, you are so full of hypocrisy.

    If forcing charity on others is ethical, if earning money is bad, then you are right Mr.Ghosh. What alternative do you have so that designers get some returns, none.

    So just STFU and get a life.

  1. 5. Nikhil | April 10, 2007 #

    @Diva,

    Compensate for links??? Are you kiddin me…

    One out of 100 users bothers to pay a $5 for support, you think users care about designers? Hell no.

    Users do not have the ethics nor a heart to drop a tenner, and they demand linkfree themes in the name of ethics? What an irony.

  1. 6. Matt | April 10, 2007 #

    Nikhil, racism is distasteful no matter what the context.

  1. 7. Nikhil | April 10, 2007 #

    Matt, racism is distasteful, so is calling designers “spammers”.

    Even worse is stealing themes. You promote copyright infringements on your own site http://www.wordpress.org. Did you ever check the themes on codex, half of them are rip-offs.
    Sorry, truth bites.

  1. 8. Aditya | April 11, 2007 #

    i agree with matt. if this is a constructive discussion, lets keep it that way.

  1. 9. hso | April 11, 2007 #

    Easy people, let’s not lose the point in contention.

    @ Nikhil

    It’s not who he is, it’s what he is doing that bothers you and frankly most designers who are making a living out of their work, including myself.

    @ Matt

    I agree it’s a stretch making it racial, and I know what it is to be on the receiving end of it very well!

    With that said, selectively sidelining some designers work constitutes as discrimination, I do not see you voicing that concern to Mark. Themes having sponsored links in no way (most of the time) violate any WordPress policies if released under the right licenses, so why are they treated as a taboo and listing below other themes or separately? Adding to that, Weblogtoolscollection is adding a note saying “Contains Sponsor Links” or whatever, as if the user will not figure that out or not know what to do with it.

    We have worked hard to bringing our services to the WP community for free, surely not as much as you have, check the comments on our site and you will know how we serve other WP users, so turning around and treating us like a disease is just unacceptable.

  1. 10. Mark | April 11, 2007 #

    Matt,

    What if a designer is unemployed, a single mom, or a student trying to afford education?

    We need to pay our bills too. Not that we want sponsors, but users don’t pay us a dime for the hours of work that goes into making themes or providing support.

    Again, it’s easy to distinguish between sponsored themes made for the sole purpose of making money and those that are just a compensation.

    1. If a designer wants sponsors for the sole purpose of making money, he/she will never provide support on his/her site.

    2. If a sponsor buys themes and calls himself a designer, he would be unable to provide support due to technical incompetence.

    3. Some sponsored themes have no attribution links to the original CSS designers, now that is questionable.

    I personally don’t object to sponsorships, I see it as a way of being challenged to make nicer themes, especially with the increasing number of designers, the competition has increased.

    I get twice as much to create a quality theme, is it unfair to charge more if you give more?

    You get what you pay. Those who pay for custom websites, get value for their money.

    Nikhil does sound racist, but Nikhil does make a valid argument. Why are you forcing charity upon us? Is there a way you can allow us to upload premium templates for a nominal fee, say just $9.99?

    We have some really nice themes, but I’m afraid, we can’t afford to release them for free.

    Unless you have a rule which everyone should follow, there will be chaos. For transparency in the system, there are more vital issues which are totally ignored like questioning:

    1. Whether a theme designer is really a designer? Is he/she capable of answering support questions?

    2. What punishment to do have for copyright infringements, duplicate uploads or for those who abused the rating system earlier?

    Why are we selective in punishing people?

    If the above two issues are not addressed, then I don’t see any reason why we should make an issue out of nothing.

    We live in a free world, and hitting on someone’s possibly only source of income is unethical. You have power and authority, it’s my humble request to you to please consider our perspective.

  1. 11. 600 High PR Links | April 11, 2007 #

    What a storm in a teacup. For those who are complaining about designers “trying” to earn a living. Go get a real job. Your unfounded comments are just that, “unfounded”.

    Col :)

  1. 12. WP Diva | April 11, 2007 #

    Since this debate started up again, I thought I should drop a note about one very fine comment about it that wank made. Definitely worth a read.

    @Nikhil
    You make a valid point. Though the vast majority of theme users who’ve contacted me have been extremely pleasant, a few of them are just plain rude and then expect me to dole out a bunch of my time for free. It boggles the mind. I guess their mums never told them that they can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. :/

    Diva

  1. 13. Falconer Designs » Blog Archive » Sponsored Themes .. apparently Evil from hell! | April 11, 2007 #

  1. 14. Craig | April 12, 2007 #

    I agree, I see no problem with sponsored links on themes.
    I think most bloggers are smart enough to decide for themselves whether or not they want sponsored links on their site. And I don’t like how some people are turning this in to a witch hunt.
    Everyone has a right to make a living, and if you don’t agree with it, don’t use sponsored themes - simple.

  1. 15. David Bain | April 12, 2007 #

    I have no issue with one or two sponsored links on a theme. A designer must make a living somehow. The reality is that because many ’spammy’ site are here today, gone tomorrow, they won’t want to spend too much money on buying links. Because of this, it tends to be just legitamite sites that would buy sponsored links.

  1. 16. Joni Mueller | April 12, 2007 #

    @Nikhil .. I had to look up the term “desi” to see what all the fuss was about. Prior to someone else mentioning a slur, I just assumed it was short for DESIgner.

    Mark is a friend. I think he raised some valid points and shone light on some of the shortcomings of the system at the theme repository. Of course the argument can be made that there is ALWAYS room for improvement, and there is.

    I also do believe that the sponsored theme issue is much ado about nothing. As always, people are free to download, or not, whatever themes they choose. If they don’t like the theme, the answer is simply not to download it. Find a theme that doesn’t have those download links.

    Perhaps if the sponsored themes aren’t being downloaded, then those themes’ authors can rethink whether or not they want to insist on sponsorship links.

  1. 17. headsetop | April 12, 2007 #

    @ Joni

    I learnt about that word when I was in Grad school, but never thought it could be used as a derogatory slang.

    I agree with the rest of your comment, users have a choice, but I guess the issue with Matt is that he is paying to host the sites these themes are distributed or promoted from, and he is not being compensated in anyway, I understand his point of view. But this could have been resolved without making it sound like themes with sponsors are bad for SEO and such, let’s face it, any link going out of your site in some way or the other affect your Page Rank, be it from footer links, blogrolls or from within posts.

  1. 18. Nikhil | April 12, 2007 #

    RED ALERT
    Google Page Rank will drop.

    Woohoo. who uses WP themes, Google or Yahoo? or misers that can’t part with a tenner to get a link removed?

    Duh. Mind leaving some stats Mr.Ghosh?

    You have ads and 100s of outgoing links on your own blog, I see your PR intact.

    Add ten more links to the footer and your PR will still be intact, I challenge you.
    A site with no backlinks will have a bad PR, regardless of footer links. If a site does not have good backlinks, are the footers to blame…BS.

    You Bongs raise red flags, don’t work, don’t let others work. Claim to be intellectual, don’t have an ounce of intelligence to make money. Kolkata-Poverty, same thing.

    Holy WordPress, like the big WordPress guys made no money out of it.

    BULLSHIT.

  1. 19. headsetop | April 12, 2007 #

    @ Nikhil

    Can you make your point without getting personal! We don’t censor comments, but that does not mean we can’t.

  1. 20. Moses Francis | April 12, 2007 #

    I agree with the designers point of view as i release themes too.

  1. 21. YH | April 12, 2007 #

    Hmm.. I guess its not really whether designers should be paid for their work. They should!! But if they design something for free, then that’s up to them. Both ways, there are still many other ways to get paid other than just sponsored themes anyway.

    What matt seems to say is that he doesn’t want to host it. Since its kinda his place over there at wordpress.org whats the problem? I mean, you’re actually trying to fight for the right to host something on someone’s site for free and when he doesn’t want to help you host it and publicise it on a high traffic site for free anymore you slam him? Also, he has put it up for vote. We can question the validity of the votes but thats impossible to verify really, both sides can cheat on this one.

    Also the comments are getting personal and childish. Hey man, everybody loves free stuff.. who wants to pay? I bet you if you were that good you could use your talents elsewhere instead of creating wordpress themes. Serious!

    Anyway, everyone complaining is riding on the high traffic of themes.wordpress.org to get their money. Shouldn’t you pay to get listed on that site too? Since designers should get paid, shouldn’t the people who moderate and keep it neat be paid by YOU who use it to host your themes? haha.. Have you designers and people who post stuff there shown gratitude monetarily? or even in cheap words of thanks? for managing that monster of a database of themes? I hope you all have cos I’m sure that beats the crap out of a one-off themeing job which you can just upload there and forget.

  1. 22. WP Diva | April 12, 2007 #

    Or a third option…if Matt no longer wants to host any sponsored themes on the wp.net site, why not allow the theme designers to upload their post about the theme, but link to the download from their site. I understand one of the major selling points of the theme viewer is that it allows people to see the themes in action, but surely, that doesn’t consume as much bandwidth as the actual multiple downloads of the zip files.

    Just thinking out loud…

    Diva

  1. 23. WP Diva | April 12, 2007 #

    Have you designers and people who post stuff there shown gratitude monetarily? or even in cheap words of thanks? for managing that monster of a database of themes?

    Yes. I’ve donated, real money, on multiple occasions to the WP project and offered them “cheap” words of thanks (though, in my opinion, they weren’t cheap). While I haven’t managed the “monster database” of themes at the theme viewer, I have helped out quite a bit in the support forums and off the support forums.

    To paint all designers who are voicing their opinions in that light is pretty myopic and borderline childish of you, YH.

    Diva

  1. 24. YH | April 12, 2007 #

    That’s great that you donate. I never said designers didn’t or they should or whatever. I’m so sorry that you read it that way. And when I said cheap I meant it doesn’t cost anything, not that it isn’t worth anything. My bad, and my apologies for choosing my words poorly. I’m really interested to seeing a good compromise that benefits all here.

  1. 25. headsetop | April 13, 2007 #

    @ YH and WP Diva

    If all discussions are leading to the bank vault, the issue is no longer that of ethics, but of economics.

    No one needs to host our work for free, we are willing to pay!

  1. 26. Mark | April 13, 2007 #

    @YH,

    Matt claims WordPress is free. Even if he would want fees, I doubt if he would say that openly, coz it would contradict his own ethical statements.

  1. 27. jenny | April 14, 2007 #

    yh, tell me the hosting cost, $, $$, $$$, $$$$, $$$$$?

  1. 28. xiando | April 14, 2007 #

    You really should read through the GNU GPL - yes, go read it - because you obviously think it’s somehow compatible with Creative Commons licenses. Go read, or ask a lawyer. CC licenses on WP themes are not only void by default, they also mean that you are in fact in violation of the GNU GPL by trying to re-license them… yeah, you’re in violation. Yes, it costs you to make themes, and yeah it’s great that you make them, but you’re a scammer regardless and you’re in violation regardless of you understanding the GNU GPL or not.

  1. 29. headsetop | April 14, 2007 #

    @ xiando

    Your URL is was pointing to an Adult Site, so your credibility is in serious question here!

    Either you can’t read English or you are plain simple dumb. Dual licensing is very much possible, we release CSS and images under CC and the php files under GPL. This is by far the best fit, any theme author who is not using this format is more likely not able to protect her/his work from rip-offs and duplicating.

    Just because WordPress realized that CC would place most Plugins (which is one major reason for it’s success) outside the GPL license WP is released under, they twisted the arms of Plugin designers to release under GPL. The same is being pushed at theme designers now.

    This dual licensing would probably suffice if the issue ‘really’ was about sponsored links, the php files containing the link would fall under GPL.  

  1. 30. Dennis | April 15, 2007 #

    I’m sorry but your take on this issue relies on the assumption that designing themes for open source blogging engines is a viable and ethical business model. I think the point being made in the blogosphere here is that most educated people don’t consider this an ethical business model, rather they think that it’s a mild form of spam. I’m sorry that your chosen profession is considered by some to be disreputable, but anything involving paid links and sponsorship is known as spam to experienced users of the web.

  1. 31. headsetop | April 15, 2007 #

    I do not believe the issue really is about ethics, we are not hiding the fact that we have sponsors, we are not forcing people to use it either. We provide a service with the aid of sponsors, we know what educated people believe as we are educated to a great degree too! So making it sound like any link that is from a paid source is spam is like saying advertisements are spam, then more than half the blogs out there are in some way spammy!

    Also, I noticed another trend where reputed bloggers, programmers and designers place a text-ad in their footer to those who contribute money as donations! Most of those donors are who you might call spammers! So let’s not try preaching other about ethics, it’s easier to point fingers, but try doing something on your own and you will soon realize that talk is cheap!

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  1. 35. Jennifer | April 19, 2007 #

    I personally think that if people are gonna use these “sponsored themes” (at their choice), then the sponsors should be paying the theme users to have those links on there since they are supposedly not allowed to take them off. But that’s just my opinion.

  1. 36. hso | April 20, 2007 #

    @ Jennifer

    OK, then the user must pay royalty to the designers to use the theme. It’s really very simple, “if you get something for free, don’t complain”.

    Alternatively, don’t use sponsored themes!

    Also, just to clarify the license structure, the user is not required to keep non-attribution links. Who ever said you are not supposed to take it out is playing on users naïveté.

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